Bitter row after PM visits Dollar

Jamie MacDonald • Published 14 Apr 2010 10:38 35 Comments

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SNP MSP Keith Brown and Labour MP Gordon Banks come face to face. (Pic Jan van der Merwe)

THE political fight for votes in Ochil and South Perthshire at the General Election threatened to boil over in Dollar on Saturday.

Prime Minister Gordon Brown visited the village on the campaign trail to meet voters and in doing so happened upon the very street SNP MSP for Ochil Keith Brown lives on.

The events that followed, which were posted on the internet site youtube (see video below) on Monday evening, have been hotly disputed by the political parties.

A Labour spokesperson claims to have been punched in the back by the local MSP, Scotland's Schools Minister, who Labour representatives say was acting in a rude and aggressive manner. Labour MP Gordon Banks has compared Keith Brown to a "hooligan".

The MSP himself claims he simply attempted to ask the Prime Minister a question outside his home and has now become the victim of political mud slinging.

He said "The video clearly shows there is no punch and I wasn't jumping around out of control. I stopped him (the Labour aide) backing into me with my hands, that's it."

Mr Brown MSP, a former marine, told the Advertiser he was in his garden when Gordon Brown arrived and he decided to take the opportunity to ask the country's leader about the Iraq War, the lack of helicopters in Afghanistan and about his general support for troops.

He said, "They were reasonable questions delivered without abuse. Labour's ridiculous attempt at a smear campaign against me shows just how unsettled they are.

"Gordon Banks and Labour have tried to turn the democratic right to ask questions into acting like a hooligan and this is totally wrong.

"Labour has resorted to fantasy and fiction, and when pressed on the issue on Sunday during the BBC's Politics Show, even Jim Murphy (the Secretary of State for Scotland) has now admitted that 'no assault took place' and I would like to know what action is now being taken by the Labour Party to address this?

"I hope that Gordon Banks will now follow the lead of his boss admit that he was wrong."

The Labour spokesperson involved in the alleged fracas said, "Gordon Banks had invited the Prime Minister to tea with some residents in Dollar, they were not party members.

"Gordon and his wife Sarah spent an hour talking to them and it went really well. As the Prime Minister came out with Sarah they were thanking the hosts in the garden and he (Keith Brown) was screaming and shouting about Iraq and saying 'go away'.

He added, "He then punched me in the back. It was not hard, my nephews hit me harder, but he is a Government Minister and I think the people of Alloa will be surprised by that kind of approach."

Mr Brown MSP has pointed out that three television camera crews, police and the Prime Minister's security were all in the vicinity yet no-one appeared to officially witness any incident.

Mr Banks has written to the SNP leader at Holyrood, Alex Salmond, calling for Mr Brown MSP to be disciplined for a breach of the ministerial code binding government ministers to be respectful to each other.

He continued, "It was disgraceful behaviour - and especially from the man responsible for Scottish education.

"He was acting like a hooligan, trying to make a scene. This man has let our area down."

Mr Banks went on, "People from across the country will think this is what happens here.

"People in our area are polite and friendly to others, even if they don't agree with them. I am appalled at how Ochil has been portrayed by a man who should know better."

He added, "I was surprised he was not out campaigning with his General Election candidate at the time."

Mr Brown responded saying this was now the fifth time the Labour Party had referred him to the Scottish Parliament over disciplinary matters.

He said, "Every time it has been no case to answer and it should not be allowed to happen. They make a claim without evidence. It is smear and smear - this is what they do. It is a big machine Labour have and they throw as much mud as they can and hope some of it sticks."

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Craig Hutchinson
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Apr 14, 11:19
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Having watched the clip I saw nothing wrong with our MSP challenging the Prime Minister to explain his government's inability to supply our troops with the right equipment.

The clip clearly shows the MSP asking questions in a calm and assured manner yet the Labour party members begin to block and deliberately back into him. They knew what they were doing and Keith Brown attempted to get by - so if this is "hooligan" behaviour then perhaps the Gordon Banks needs to get out more and get a grip!

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Paul McAleavey
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Apr 14, 16:03
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This type of loutish behaviour is unacceptable from a Scottish Government Minister - heckling like a hooligan. Is this the sort of role model we want as Minister for children's education in Scotland? If he wants to challenge the Prime Minister, he could always stand as a Westminister candidate against Gordon Banks.

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Craig Hutchinson
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Apr 14, 20:37
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Not Paul McAleavey Labour Party candidate in the 2009 European Elections?

Try to put aside your partisan political leanings and watch the video again. I hear no rabid shouting, waving of hands, making inappropriate gestures, stanley blades etc... Perhaps you may wish to look up the definition of "Hooligan" and re-appreciate your current stance…but then to smear and spread disinformation I suppose is a lot easier to do than getting in touch with the real issues which blight our communities.

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Paul McAleavey
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Apr 14, 21:29
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Not Craig Hutchinson the Wee County's habitual cybernat?

One of the issues which blights our communities is anti-social behaviour. Keith Brown is regrettably Minister for Schools in Scotland (due primarily to the dearth of talent amongst Nationalist MSPs). That office requires him to abide by certain standards. Loutish shouting and shoving falls well short of the mark. This man is, despite all his evident faults, a Minister.

He failed the office and the constituency miserably.

We cannot allow the standards of government office to be dragged down to the level of online Nationalists.

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Craig Hutchinson
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Apr 14, 22:35
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May I firstly thank you for the accolade of "Wee County Cybernat", yet I really have to be honest and state that I carry no membership card for the SNP or any other political party…although I do have a gym membership now sadly expired.

As you would probably expect I cannot agree with your assessment of Keith Brown's actions in Dollar falling into the category of loutish behaviour and I believe the video proves this. I note from recent news stories that the Labour Party line on the incident has altered from punching a Labour Party official in the back of the head to punching in the back and now to shoving – this really seems indicative of Scottish Labour i.e. throw as much mud and bile as you can at the opposition – sometimes it appears almost sectarian!

The type of situation where MPs are approached with difficult questions will no doubt be a regular occurrence until polling day so wouldn't it have been refreshing to see the Prime Minister tackle directly the questions which Keith Brown MSP asked instead of ignoring them and being driven away?

That would show fight, conviction and grit – not that the Prime Minister lacks these qualities. Undoubtedly anyone who can survive the onslaught not only from the opposition but also from the media and indeed sections of his own party must surely have something special in his locker.

Finally, with respect there are many talented and capable SNP MSPs as there are Labour, Conservative etc

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PoliticalPosturing
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Apr 15, 02:35
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Is Keith Brown going to say sorry to his constituents for putting his political party before them while voting at Holyrood to close Waterwatch. His very own contribution to job losses in his own constituency.

Is Keith Brown going to say sorry to his constituents for putting his political party before his constituents once again. Turning his back on his own constituents by saying he staunchly opposed the Beauly-Denny powerline in opposition but now says it's welcome as he and his colleagues are in position in Holyrood.

"No other country would permit such a blight on their landscape" he said while in opposition. Well Mr Brown, it would seem you yourself have helped to permit "such a blight" on your own constituents landscape!

When are you going to apologise to your constituents then? Yes, it's pot, kettle & black from Mr Brown yet again.

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Clarence Bishop
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Apr 15, 08:00
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Can't say the video shows anything untoward going on though there wasn't any need for Brown to shove Banks aside. I think both are making mountains of molehills here.

Being an exiled Wee County man, it's always good to see a local representative making such an eloquent protest on behalf of... aah, himself?

Unfortunately, I won't have the opportunity to vote against either candidate.

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Richard Paterson
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Apr 15, 14:30
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Gordon Banks needs to stop making political mischief, nothing happened, there is no story here despite the reports from the weekend.

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frank
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Apr 15, 17:33
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Nice to see a Hibs strip front and centre. Good to see some sanity in the world.

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Anonymous
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Apr 16, 16:11
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Vote for Gordon Banks?

Not sure if this is the way he tries to approach a simple defensive touch. No need to make a fuss over nothing.

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Disgruntled Constituent
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Apr 16, 20:10
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Keith Brown is nothing more than a glorified lout. His very presence indicates an ulterior motive.

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Ochil Observer
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Apr 16, 21:41
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That was his street! ulterior motive, more like residential motive.

Who's "ulterior motive" took the Prime Minister to within a dozen doors of a Scottish Government Minister's home in a key Scottish marginal?

Methinks London Labour doth protest too much...

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Jodie
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Apr 16, 22:12
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Erm yeah - this is the street that Keith Brown lives in. Surely he can't avoid being in the street that he lives?

Typical Labour PR makeing a fuss over nothing to grab the headlines then backing off!

Anyone who watches the clip can see that the bodyguard was backing into Keith Brown and he deflected that contact.

Frankly if Gordon Brown was to appear in my street, I can't say I'd be so restrained.

I'm not an SNP supporter usually but since moving to Clackmannanshire a few years ago I have changed my mind!

Also had to laugh at the Unison letter I received - don't think the good folks of Clackmannanshire will be too happy to receive that considering the poor support they have had!

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Jane
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Apr 16, 23:26
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I think you will find the correct form of 'who' in your sentence would actually be 'whose'. The point being made was simply why Keith Brown felt it appropriate to go out into the street and get involved in the Ministerial visit.

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freedom
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Apr 17, 13:58
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If someone backs into you and almost stands on your feet, your normal reaction is to push them away... this is a non incident. Youths setting the now empty Alloa academy on fire the other day and endangering the lives of firemen who had to enter the derlict, vandalised, eyesore of a building is more of an issue. locals have been complaining since the school closed that this would happen as gangs of youths have been smashing the building up, throwing furniture out of windows and running around inside. Was only a matter time before it was set alight. Maybe the local labour mp needs to concentrate on the real issues in the county.

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Ochil Observer
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Apr 17, 16:52
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You understood the point I made, but thanks for the grammar lesson, Jane.

Is Keith, as a voter in the area who lives just a few doors away, not entitled to question the Labour candidate or PM when they visit his street?

After all, I have heard precious little about Labour and hustings in the constituency - are they planning to visit each voter at home for tea before polling day instead? I'm still waiting...

I'd encourage everyone to watch the clip and listen to the questioning; It wasn't rude, abrasive or offensive, it was simply a series of questions posed by a constituent and ignored by both the Labour candidate and the PM.

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Ochil Observer
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Apr 17, 17:03
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You understood the point I made, but thanks for the grammar lesson, Jane.

Is Keith, as a voter in the area who lives just a few doors away, not entitled to question the Labour candidate or PM when they visit his street?

After all, I have heard precious little about Labour and hustings in the constituency - are they planning to visit each voter at home for tea before polling day instead? I'm still waiting...

I'd encourage everyone to watch the clip and listen to the questioning; It wasn't rude, abrasive or offensive, it was simply a series of questions posed by a constituent and ignored by both the Labour candidate and the PM.

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Orang U Tang
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Apr 18, 11:18
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On watching this clip, the bodyguard did back into Keith Brown. However, Keith is seen to shove him out the way with some force which wasn't required. Keith could have moved back too, but didn't.

His questioning was valid too. But he's not too quick to reveal his own failings is he?? No council tax abolition, no smaller class sizes etc.

As for local MSP, what has he achieved? Education Minister, don't make me laugh!

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PoliticalPosturing
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Apr 19, 01:06
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Keith Brown has every right to ask questions like any other constituent.

However, Keith Brown must also see that he himself must answer questions from constituents that his own political actions have brought to his own community. (ie. Waterwatch, Beauly-Denny Powerline.)

Keith Brown needs to realise he can't have it both ways. Mr Brown himself has constituents questions to answer yet has failed to answer them satisfactorily.

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PoliticalPosturing
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Apr 19, 01:37
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Freedom: " Maybe the local labour mp needs to concentrate on the real issues in the county."

Perhaps he should convert to what the the local MSPs political party colleagues feel are the "real issues" in the country as they have wasted time in bringing to debate the following in Holyrood.

* Gaelic road-signs throughout Scotland

* Repatriating Mary Queen of Scots remains

* Banning cricket from Scottish tv screens

* Replacing the George Medal with a St. Andrews medal

* Changing internet domain endings from co.uk to .scorn* A pardon for Pirate Captain Kidd

* A "salute" to rock group AC/DC

Are these the kind of "real issues" the local MP should be on about?

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Miss M
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Apr 19, 09:20
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Keith didn't do anything wrong. He (quite rightly) stopped someone backing on to him. It's a natural reaction!! I'd like to see Gordon Banks let someone back on to him...

This resembles something that kids would fight about in a playground. Get a grip Banks!

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PoliticalPosturing
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Apr 19, 15:18
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I wonder how would Keith Brown feel if someone came through the door to his constituency surgery at Mill Street in such a manner. Shouting the odds and waving arms about?

Do you think he or his staff would have called the police?

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Craig Hutchinson
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Apr 19, 18:39
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"Perhaps he should convert to what the the local MSPs political party colleagues feel are the real issues..."

PoliticalPosturing wins the award for the most simplistic and petty representation of the achievements of the Scottish Government - my congratulations.

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PoliticalPosturing
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Apr 19, 21:59
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Cheers Mr Hutchinson. Much appreciated to have the accolade. Perhaps I'll receive a newly polished St. Andrews medal?

I mean I know how important it is to have Mary Queen of Scots repatriated back to Scottish soil (she has been buried in England since 1587 right enough) or pardon Captain Kidd, (a pirate who died in 1701). I know it's pretty important to the SNP for wasting valuable time bringing stuff like this up in Holyrood.

However, since your defending the local MSP so gallantly what's your views on him when in opposition sending a document on behalf of his constituents at the Beauly-Denny enquiry stating "no country would permit such a blight on their doorstep".

Yet now is own political party colleagues have permitted this "blight" in his own community he seems to have turned his back on those constituents he fought for in opposition and now welcomes the decision of his SNP colleagues. How strange.

I'm really curious to here these views since I've written to and emailed Keith Brown himself on a number of occasions for an answer, I still have yet to receive an answer though.

Thanks for your congratulations, much appreciated.

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Miss M
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Apr 20, 10:45
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I'm pretty sure Keith Brown's constituency office staff will have encountered people "shouting the odds and waving arms about", and just dealt with it in a calm and collected manner. I'm sure they wouldn't have spat the dummy out!

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PoliticalPosturing
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Apr 20, 12:56
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Cheers for the reply Miss M.

How about this one then. Would Keith Brown have called the police if those persons "shouting the odds and waving arms about" at him in his constituency office lifted their hands and shoved him like he did with the guy in the video?

The argument from some here seems to be that the guy moved in front of him so he was justified in shoving him out the way.

Maybe we should take a leaf out Mr Brown's book. Next time we're up town and someone walks in front of us we'll simply shove them out the way.

When that person calls the police we can give our name as "a local champion".

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Jimmy B
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Apr 20, 13:00
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Judging from his appearance in the youtube video Keith Brown has fairly piled the weight on since becoming an MSP. The Scottish Parliament canteen must be far, far superior to Clackmannanshire Councils equivalent. lol

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Craig Hutchinson
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Apr 20, 16:24
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Political Posturing,

Firstly the Keith Brown episode: I understand how difficult it can be to avoid being caught up in the emotive atmosphere of an election however, if you put aside your prejudices towards the MSP and watch the video again you can clearly see a most gentle "shove" – if it can even be described as such. This incident has been blown out of all proportion or distorted by those who have a clear agenda. To suggest otherwise is clearly both disingenuous and facetious.

In terms of the Beauly-Denny power line as far as I am aware MSPs from all parties were in favour and the granting of consent was subject to mitigation in the Stirling area. Although clearly not ideal we will have to wait for the Stirling Council group together with other interested parties coming to some agreement on what level of mitigation would be acceptable. That said I am no expert by any means on this subject and was just lucky enough to hear the above at a debate held earlier today. If you really feel so strongly about this issue (as in nearly every post you refer back to this topic and Waterwatch) why don't you make an appointment with Keith Brown and meet him face to face?)

I notice from your Scottish government list that you have missed the freeze on Council Tax, reduction in prescriptions which are soon to be free, record numbers of police officers, increase in free school meals and my personal favourite – no new nuclear power stations or associated dumps.

I also note that for acts of civilian bravery you feel that we as a nation (Scotland in this case) should not recognise this – how very strange! I'm not sure that the St Andrews medal even exists but if it did I do not think your jaundiced posts would be deemed eligible for recognition.

Many thanks

CH

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PoliticalPosturing
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Apr 20, 21:29
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Here I am appealing for answers from Keith Brown and here you are trying to answer on his behalf! Your not his alter-ego are you? His publicist? His apologist?

Firstly, on the Beauly-Denny powerline issue, Keith Brown has contradicted his views on a number of occasions on that one. In correspondence to constituents, at the public enquiry, in the local press and at Holyrood. On your suggestion of a meeting. Well, perhaps if Mr Brown had bothered to respond to my letters and emails in the first place then I'm sure that could have been a distinct possibility.

The freeze on Council Tax: We don't like forking out our cash on Council Tax but we all want our buckets emptied and the like so we have to part with that money. We also know that every council throughout Scotland are facing cuts, yes even those SNP controlled councils! However, who knows, perhaps a small rise in Council Tax over the last three years may have just helped to keep those public toilets open that we all want to save.

Civilian bravery: No problem with deserving people or real "local champions" receiving awards but I was alluding more to having a political party childishly want to change the name of the "George Medal" to the "St. Andrews Medal" as the first sounds "too English" to be given out to Scottish recipients. You see where I'm coming from yet with that one? No?

Look forward to your reply! Toodle Pip for now!

PP

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Craig Hutchinson
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Apr 20, 22:52
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PoliticalPosturing,

...and I quote "what are your views on..." - I've tried to answer you yet now you accuse me of being Keith Brown's alter ego, publicist or his apologist?

I'm not the one hiding behind a pseudonym here - truthfully I am someone who can see the positives in all parties as well as the negatives.

If you really want answers from Keith Brown at least have the courage of your written convictions and follow up your correspondance, request a meeting and put your concerns to him (letters and all).

Re. Council Tax - Cosla was happy with the settlement and although Westminster has given the Scottish Government a reduced budget, it's up to councils to work within them. I'm not sure a small rise in Council Tax would fill the jaw dropping 9 million hole in Clackmannanshire Councils budget however!

Finally, the George Medal escapade - how dare they, anyone would think they were a Nationalist Government - oh wait a minute they are! Are you even aware of the inscription placed upon the medal or are you just taking your Daily Mail headlines et al. as gospel?

Yours,

CH

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PoliticalPosturing
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Apr 20, 23:57
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(1.) Craig Hutchinson" If you really want answers from Keith Brown at least have the courage of your written convictions and follow up your correspondance, request a meeting and put your concerns to him (letters and all)"

You don't seem to grasp it yet can you? I have followed up with a number of letters and emails. Still no reply from Mr Brown whatsoever. I see from your online page on keeping the public toilets open that you keep having a go at Gordon Banks for not immediately getting back to you after a few days. I'm still waiting on a reply of any kind from Keith Brown for a number of months but by all means your welcome to keep apologising for him on here.

(2.) Craig Hutchinson: "I'm not the one hiding behind a pseudonym here - I am someone who can see the positives in all parties as well as the negatives."

How very gallant of you! Regards to seeing positives in all parties are you sure? Anyone looking at your online campaign to save the public toilets in Alloa may suggest otherwise.

(3.) Craig Hutchinson: "Finally, the George Medal escapade - how dare they, anyone would think they were a Nationalist Government - oh wait a minute they are!"

Nope, you're definitely still not getting it are you? No-one suggested they weren't a Nationalist Govt. What was being suggested is the pathetic childlike bills proposed and trying to get through Holyrood like changing names of medals, repatriating Mary Queen of Scots remains and pardoning the Pirate Captain Kidd!

(4.)Craig Hutchinson:"Are you even aware of the inscription placed upon the medal or are you just taking your Daily Mail headlines et al. as gospel?"

Yes I'm fully aware of the inscription on the medal. It so obviously flew over your head but I was having a wee tongue in cheek dig at a political party wishing to diminish this medal and previous recipients of the medal by calling for it's renaming simply because it sounds "too English" and has St. George upon it while insinuating that every candidate that stands for that same party in this upcoming election is a "local champion" and missing the point completely that Scotland is still part of the United Kingdom.

I haven't read the Daily Mail in a long while, the cartoon page just isn't the same any longer, so haven't a clue what that ones all about unless it was a thinly veiled attempt at some humour!?

Anyway back to the whole crux of the matter and the actual story in the Alloa Advertiser. Keith Brown got a wee mention and even a photo in the national newspapers on Sunday. Awww bless him!

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Craig Hutchinson
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Apr 21, 10:34
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PP,

Your arguments are now appearing desperate and nonsensical. I at the very least digest and cogitate each of your comments, kindly have the same courtesy!

I think if you read the information on the fb site you will find we have actually had verbal dialogue with Gordon Banks MP. That's "VERBAL DIALOGUE" - as we felt the matter required such an approach, he has also agreed to hand in the information so we will be able to press home our concerns face to face. What you clearly do not seem to get is that if you are really concerned about the powerline then you would meet with Keith Brown rather than hiding behind pedantic and poorly thought-out written attacks. I also notice you persist in labelling me as an apologist – now I have tried to be transparent, open and honest, not something we can really charge you with!

For the record Gordon Banks has proved to be an able constituency MP – and we were extremely grateful for his input. Please do not attempt to attach a political motive to the campaign – again this is really disingenuous of you and I don't appreciate a petty, ill informed attempt to smear it. The campaign is extremely important for the future of Alloa and we welcome help and assistance from all.

In terms of paragraph 8, on the subject of motions - they are a device to initiate debate or propose a course of action according to the Scottish Parliament. MSPs can sign/show support if they so wish – it is a democracy after all and it is up to them to gain support on whatever the issue from fellow members of all parties.

Regarding the St George Medal – can I call your bluff and ask precisely, what does the inscription read word for word and also ask why this could be deemed inappropriate? Is discussing creating a Scottish alternative to the St George Medal really diminishing previous recipients? (Again look at the inscription)

Finally, re. the newspaper comment – I was attempting to imply that your arguments are reminiscent of a Daily Mail headline, ill informed with little substance.

Many thanks,

CH

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Angry Bystander
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Apr 21, 13:26
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I'll let you 2 get on with your tiff on other issues, but with regard to the Council Tax, Craig states: 'Cosla was happy with the settlement and although Westminster has given the Scottish Government a reduced budget, it's up to councils to work within them. I'm not sure a small rise in Council Tax would fill the jaw dropping 9 million hole in Clackmannanshire Councils budget however!'

Firstly, that CoSLA was happy by no means makes it correct. The existence of this de facto cap inevitably results in the availability of one source of funding, however much it might not dent our very own £9m, being unavailable, and this is both a frustration and a regret when we see desperate measures to save in every aspect of Council work, inevitably to the detriment of services.

And secondly, that CoSLA was happy is hardly a recommendation! This will be the same CoSLA which agreed a concordat with the Scottish Government resulting in the removal of ring fencing on various pots of funding, with the inevitable consequence being that funds previously allocated solely to services for the most vulnerable in our community, were seen as a source for offsetting deficits elsewhere.

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Ellen
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Apr 21, 15:17
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To Policital Posturing:

As Keith Brown's Office Manager, it has brought to my attention that you have mentioned that you have written to and emailed Keith a number of times but did not get a response.

I keep copies of all letters and emails sent to Keith and the office.

If you contact me at the office I should be able to track down your correspondence and find out why you did not receive a reply.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Ellen

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Richard Paterson
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Apr 21, 15:29
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Isnt cosla associated more with the Labour Party in local government than anyone else. I don't think they would agree to something proposed by the SNP if it was not in their interests. The millions of pounds in the red was caused by an accounting error nothing to do with a cap.

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